Rituals, Routines & Stationery: Why the tactile nature of stationery can help us with rituals
Hi, everybody, and welcome to another episode of Stationery Freaks with myself, Rob Lambert, and of course.
Helen:With me, Helen Lesowski.
Rob:So, Helen, today we are talking about rituals and routines. It's not planned as per usual, so we'll see how it goes. As with almost all of our episodes, we start with stationary stories. So Helen, what's happening in your stationary world?
Helen:Well, I did have a wonderful moment at my writing class. So regular listeners will know I do writing class with the wonderful Jenny Cain. And Jenny had very, very unusual first time ever happened. She had a phone call and it was a family member that she was worried about. So she literally apologized to everybody and said, give me two seconds.
Helen:And she left for two seconds while we were on this writing class. So of course, we're all sat round on Zoom and one of the people said to me, oh, I was listening to your podcast, Helen. And I tried to get those advent calendars and they were all sold out. Oh, that's a shame. And we chatted on, but then he's waved at me a Blackwing pencil, at which point two other people held up their Blackwing pencil.
Helen:And I found out mine, we got like four out of five people, the poor woman who was the only person, she had no idea what we were talking about at all, in love of Blackwing pencils, just for a brief moment in my writing class. And Jenny came back looking around going, what on earth is going on?
Rob:I reckon that other person's gonna have a Blackwing pencil next session. Was that because they'd heard you talking about them at the either on the cast or during the writing work?
Helen:Yeah, we've been speaking. So we were at a writing retreat together.
Rob:Right.
Helen:We had so much fun. Me and this particular chap who shout out to Joe, we had so much fun one afternoon. He'd come back from a walk having chatted to a local who said, did you know that there's a hidden staircase in this house you're staying in and there's a piece of furniture with secret compartments?
Rob:Wow.
Helen:Joe and I were off Like, you know, it was like something out of Famous Five. We were off and we were running around and we did find the secret staircase and we found a walk in safe, which was really exciting. Wow. It was very fun. So yes, because we were at this writing retreat doing really silly things, one of the things we was talking about stationary.
Helen:So yeah.
Rob:Well, I mean, that's almost an inevitable conversation. I would imagine at a writing retreat is the tools of the trade, but I love hidden stuff in houses.
Helen:I know Joe and I were literally like excitable school children. It was the most fun I've had in a long time.
Rob:That's awesome. Yeah. I remember we stayed in a property on the South Coast, really beautiful part of the world.
Helen:Oh, And
Rob:they're in England. And I I can't remember whose house it was, but it was this huge mansion on the the side of the hills. And it had a an old, I guess, gun turret pillbox, but it was a big pillbox from World War two looking out over the the harbor. And I was just like, wow. This is cool.
Rob:This is awesome. And then there was a little door and a little gate and the gate opened and I thought, oh, this is interesting. About two hours later, I emerged at the other side through this tunnel. Oh, And it was all the secret, like little networks and tunnels that were connecting all the different properties and gun turrets and all that kind of stuff. I was like, wow, this is incredible.
Helen:I don't know that I'd have gone. Was that all underground?
Rob:Yeah, under the under the water and stuff. And I'm extremely claustrophobic.
Helen:Never would have done that.
Rob:But the tunnels were fairly wide and it was fine. There was a few narrow bits where I was like, no, no, no, no. Start panicking. It was great. Really good for any secret hidden rooms and love it.
Helen:Oh, just give me. Mean, this is just absolutely love the idea of hidden things and finding things and hunts and mysteries. I mean, yeah, just love it.
Rob:Yeah. Old things. So we had Richard Barnard on the show who did, we did a wonderful episode of Commonplace Books. It was really well received, and we got a lot of, feedback about that. And he is, also into sort of collaging using old posters and what have you like this.
Rob:I hopefully, Richard, you're not gonna mind us sharing this, and I will check before I actually publish this episode. Do. But he sent both me and Helen a lovely card in the post. It cut through the noise, and it's, you know, something arrives in an envelope addressed to you. You're gonna open it.
Rob:And it was a lovely little card. I don't know what yours is like, Helen, but mine's got a really nice collage on the front and a really nice little message inside. But actually inside the card was something very cool indeed. And you did receive one of these as well, didn't you?
Helen:Mine's exactly the same as yours. Yeah.
Rob:And it's a little zine made out of, I guess, one sheet of a four paper folded and cut into a zine, which is cool anyway. And it's it's one of his hot old, I guess, reused bits stationary or card. It's really nice. We'll include pictures of this in the newsletter and on Instagram. But also, it's a poem by his brother-in-law as well about the commonplace episode.
Rob:It's just lovely, thank you so much Richard, thank you so much to your brother-in-law, who, I think his name's Phil. Awesome, it's lovely, isn't it?
Helen:It is, it was really lovely. I am speechless that an episode of Stationery Freaks has moved somebody to write an actual poem and somebody else to turn that into art. And it was just, again, because we weren't expecting it was so lovely to receive it. So yeah, really great. Thank you Yeah, so
Rob:thank you so much. And we will include images of that in the newsletter, which you can find at stationeryfreaks.com. So Helen, any other stationary stories?
Helen:No, it's been a relatively quiet week for me. After last week, last week, last time's many, many stationary stories of purchases wild and free, I have not done any more purchasing.
Rob:I haven't either, but as regular listeners might know, we did a stationary notebook haul.
Helen:We did.
Rob:And we have way too many notebooks as you can imagine. And I've been a little bit obsessed with writing. I've actually published another business book and worksheet for business leaders. And when I get obsessed with a project, I properly get obsessed. I do twelve, thirteen hours a day of writing and producing these things.
Rob:And I need a notebook, of course. Now for once, I didn't procrastinate over this. I literally went to the drawer, took out a Rhodia black notebook a four size, and just started using it. There wasn't a moment of hesitation, Helen. What's going on?
Helen:I don't know. Why did you not hesitate? Was that because you just picked the first one up or did you already know what you were going for when you went to the draw?
Rob:Well, you know me, it's usually a yellow legal pad.
Helen:Well, exactly right. So you'd obviously pre made that decision or you just opened the drawer and literally pulled out the first thing that came to hand.
Rob:I did. I knew it needed to be a full size because I like the real estate and I like to be able to make big notes and do diagrams and stuff like that. And I just recorded a video for YouTube about the station that I use to rehearse for a keynote, which I have in a couple of weeks. So the a four yellow legal pads were out because that was part of that video. And I went to draw and saw the rodeo and thought, that's it.
Rob:Grab it, cracked on, and that's it. Helen, routines and rituals. So when we talk about our stationary habits, we think we're talking about routines, don't we?
Helen:We do.
Rob:They're sort of this sort of functional, I guess, designed for efficiency, designed to get stuff done, designed to take away, I guess, the thinking about having to do something?
Helen:Yeah, I, you and I know we've done, I've spent a long time doing things to do with habit building. So I rely really heavily on my systems and my processes and my habits and my habit stacking just to function in the everyday So this is something that I didn't know very much about at all, really. So this is really interesting to me, Rob, what you've learned.
Rob:Well, learn's a strong word, Helen. I've researched whether it's stuck in my head or not. I'm not too sure. We'll find out as we go through this episode, but I think really the difference between rituals and routines is routines is about habits. It's about taking away some of that thinking about efficiency.
Rob:It's about, I guess, getting things done, you know, checking emails, brushing your teeth, making a cup of tea, you know, those kind of things. But I think there's a point where it blurs into a ritual, which has meaning to it. So it's it's an intentional, I guess, activity that changes the moment or changes how you feel. So you like good coffee, don't you?
Helen:I love good coffee. Yes.
Rob:You know, I get a kettle, put a kettle on. It's, you know, Tesco basics coffee. It's cup of coffee. But I do have some very nice Turkish coffee and that is a ritual. And that's done on an espresso machine on the hob.
Rob:I guess a process, there's meaning to it. There's something from it. And I think that's what a ritual is.
Helen:I agree. I think that's, when you're talking about routines, it's the stuff that you have to get done. And ideally you want to spend as little cognitive effort as possible doing those things. You want to do them as habits so that you're not barely thinking about them. But with a ritual, point is to notice it and think about it.
Helen:And as you say, it's like changing your mindset changing your mental space. So if you're preparing a beautiful Turkish coffee, that takes time. And what you're doing is saying I'm deliberately spending time willingly. Yeah. I don't resent spending extra time making a Turkish coffee compares to a Tesco's coffee.
Helen:Other brands are available, obviously.
Rob:Of course. Of course. So the brands are available. But I think with a a ritual as well, it's that sort of, like you said, it's changing your mindset. So, you know, we had, Jenny Kane on the the podcast.
Rob:She's your writing tutor, you've just mentioned earlier in the show. And I believe her choosing a notebook for a new book is ritual.
Helen:It is absolutely. Yeah, I think so. And certainly Jenny and Helen both choose the book that they're going to, the notebook that they're going to write their next novel in specifically so that then the use of that becomes a ritual. So that's almost like a mental trigger to put them into that right mindset. It's really interesting.
Rob:It is. And you know, I think we were chatting on the pre show before we actually started recording that I'm going to be writing, I guess my first proper fiction book. I say fiction, it's still about work, but it is going to be a story about squirrels. No details are going to be given about what this story is about. But other than it's about group squirrels that ruin squirrel land.
Rob:But we'll get to that once I've got the first draft done. And I was thinking about Jenny and I was thinking, I need a notebook that represents squirrels so that it becomes a ritual when I, a, choose the notebook that's getting me into the mindset that I'm gonna write this book. Yeah. But also when I use it, I hope that that then triggers me into the flow, into the mindset, into the feelings and emotions that I'm here to write and I'm going to be writing about squirrels. And that sounded ridiculous to say that.
Helen:It does sound ridiculous, but yes, to get it into the mindset to write about whatever that thing is. I definitely think this is a good idea, but isn't that why we choose certain notebooks? I mean, you and I both run more than one notebook at a time is because you have a notebook for this thing and a notebook for that thing and a notebook for the other thing. I think that's part of it. I mean, that's less ritual, but it's trying to be a ritual.
Helen:It's trying to move your mindset really quickly when you pick up a notebook. This is the one for recruitment. So I'm doing recruitment right now.
Rob:That's interesting because as you were talking, I was thinking, I don't know whether that is a ritual. I think choosing the notebook is the ritual.
Helen:Yeah.
Rob:I think once you've chosen it, I don't know. I'm thinking about the notebooks I've got. My learning notebook, for example, is currently a mark and fold notebook. They are wonderful, by the way. And choosing that notebook was quite a dilemma as to, you know, which one do I want to commit to really for the next year of putting all of my learning notes into.
Rob:But when I use it, I don't know whether that's ritual, whether that's just routine. And I just use that notebook. That's a, that's a tough one.
Helen:Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I don't know.
Rob:But what I do always say, and I have this at work when I'm leading teams is we are going to have a time and a place to do creative stuff because you know what it's like at work, you get consumed into the tasks and the politics and all the other nonsense happens and in most creativity, innovation and, you know, really sort of, I guess, as human elements of trying to create a positive workplace often get missed. One thing I always do is have a dedicated time and a place to do creative thinking at work. It might only be an hour a week or a dedicated room in the office. I think that's a ritual.
Helen:Oh, absolutely.
Rob:Yeah,
Helen:yeah, I absolutely do. It's not I feel that a habit is something that you have to get done. And a ritual is something that you are making time deliberately to choose to do.
Rob:You mentioned in before we start recording that you listen to music.
Helen:Right. Yes.
Rob:Yeah. I I use music as rituals for sure. What's your process, Alan?
Helen:So I have different types of music for different types of writing. And it's very bizarre. It's just very bizarre. Anybody who knows me knows I like really quite loud shouty metal really is what I like. But when I'm writing for work, when I'm doing work related stuff, I listen to like Gregorian chant music all in Latin, so that it doesn't make my brain think about the words of the music.
Helen:That's one thing. But then when I'm writing for my creative writing, my fiction stuff, I have YouTube open and I have sort of four hours of continuous atmospheric music, think is the way to say. So it would be like a cafe background noises, but then there's music overlaid at the top. Or there's I have one I absolutely adore is the sound of a steam train. So you're on a train heading somewhere and then there's a little, I suppose classical music, but it's very banal classical music over the top of that.
Helen:But the sound of the train is brilliant for my fiction writing completely.
Rob:Nice. We're gonna have to. The Gregorian chanting one sounds fascinating. I hate down as as like more like West Country folk type music, but I do know you like your heavy metal and your thrash
Helen:and your death metal,
Rob:which is weird because like when, you know, anybody ever gets to see you or meet you, they it's not the first music genre that most people would assume.
Helen:No, I think I'd win any bet at any time about that.
Rob:Yeah. Often when I do a conference talk, I ask people what they think my music of choice is. A lot a lot of people say like country and western, you know, really insulting, actually.
Helen:I don't know that my mother's a massive country fan. As a result of that, I know the words of loads of country western stuff.
Rob:Oh, don't get me wrong. I never went to insult anyone who likes country music. I actually quite like country music, but I guess it's that the way I look and that music, don't associate those two things going together. But my music of choice is always hip hop, which of course you would imagine, you know,
Helen:I know
Rob:is definitely the genre of my choice. But I think that music piece is really important because and and we'll include some links and maybe even we could build a little Spotify playlist, Helen, if I
Helen:Oh, yes. Let me do it.
Rob:Got a favorite little user. I'm not on Spotify. I use Deezer. But I could build a little Deezer one, this dedicated stationary freaks playlist. And if you have a Spotify one, then people can, you know, obviously mix and match.
Rob:And when I'm writing, I always listen to the same album on repeat over and over again. There's actually two albums. They've got some lyrics in them, but they're sort of they're not involved lyrics, if that makes sense. They're just sort of, you know, quite simple lyrics. And I just play them over and over again.
Helen:Does that help you get into the right headspace? I mean, that Yeah. Do you only have those running for certain types of work? So if you're doing anything creative, that's what's on?
Rob:Only writing. So if I'm doing ideation, brainstorming type stuff, I generally do that in silence. Although if I put one of my hip hop playlists on, the way that hip hop is, it's like it's poetry. I call hip hop poetry, essentially. The rhymes and the way they construct words and sentences is fabulous if you listen to some good artists.
Rob:And that always triggers thoughts. So, actually, I often use music to trigger thoughts. And then when I'm about to write, I turn off all the music and write those ideas as an idea. But when I'm actually writing as in creating content, always same to albums. Jimmy Smith, Home Cooking, which is like a classic old jazz album.
Rob:And then Wider Angle by a band called Hybrid, which is basically electronic dance music. Those two albums, either of them, I'm straight in the zone, I'm writing. It's an instant get me into the flow of Yeah.
Helen:Would have thought it Rob.
Rob:Yeah, there you go. But I think that's part of when I was looking into the rituals, it's in some respects we do a lot of stuff around psychological safety as part of our work. It's actually a fairly effective way of dropping you into that psychological safety when you use rituals. I mean, that's what the science seems to suggest is there's a certain ritual, you know, some people light a candle before they do some sort of journaling or they make a cup of coffee before they do reflection exercises or like we do, put music on to get into writing. And it's just a really, I guess, helpful way to drop you into something to change that state of mind.
Rob:And that's what rituals are.
Helen:It is. That's really Yeah, I do think it's about changing. Changing the moment or the space that you're in. You're not physically changing it, you're you're changing your attention to it. And I think that's part of what the ritual bit of it is.
Helen:I mean, you and I, I think that that's the absolute root of why we love beautiful stationery.
Rob:Yeah.
Helen:Because all stationery are tools for the rituals that we desperately want to have, even if we don't. We're percent perfect tools to honor the writing process or the creative process or the drawing or painting or whatever it is that we want to do. And that's when we have them.
Rob:100%. And I was just going to get to that actually because the science. No, no, no. It's a perfect segue. It's almost like we planned this.
Rob:It's that there's something about the tactile nature, and this is why I think you've seen a movement of things like analog wellness, where people are disconnecting and using analog tools to sort of mental breaks and get their mind reset. There's something in there about the tactile nature of it, as though that sort of, you know, we talk about it all the time, the flow of ink across the page or even the way notebooks smell and the way they feel and the way that they open and close, there's something really connecting there, I think, about a ritual and that tactile nature of stationery.
Helen:That's really interesting because the tactile side of things is as, it's almost like another, it's just another one of your senses, isn't it? So we've talked about the music being, you know, setting your mind for the right place and then the things that you choose to do to make the space, that's another thing. But when you're picking up stationery, you're choosing a notebook and you're using that notebook for that work, again, that's your choosing that space. Think it's really, really fascinating. And until you mentioned this to me, I don't think I've really given it much thought beyond habits.
Helen:I find this interesting.
Rob:Like you say, it's kind of when we're opening a notebook, is it habit or is it part of a ritual? And I don't know whether we definitely even need to know that, but I think the tactile nature of it, in some respects, the friction as well. You know, we we talk a lot about digital tools with Todoist, and we talked about capacities last week on the cast. I'm still using those tools, but they feel really administrative versus opening a notebook and sketching and doodling, that friction, that feel.
Helen:Very different, isn't it? So they both help you get things done.
Rob:Yes.
Helen:But you're right. The the digital is very, very functional. And that's what you want efficiency and capabilities.
Rob:Longtime listeners will know I've got writing bureau in the corner. And I think the ritual aspect of that is there's no power over there. There's no electronics. It's literally just for analog work, know, art, craft, typewriter. I'm still going with the typewriter, Helen.
Helen:Are you actually using the typewriter, Rob, or are you just dusting it?
Rob:No, I still use it. I still use it when, you know, if I'm drafting the outline to a blog, for example, I often go and sit and write it out on the or type it out on the typewriter. Because you've got to slow down. You you can't type at the speed that you can on a keyboard. And when you make a mistake, you can't delete it.
Rob:You can't go back and chop stuff out easily without Tippex, which we've talked about Tippex a few times on the cast. And so you have to slow down. And I think, you know, my mind tends to race really quick and I write a thousand words and actually only 300 are useful. Yeah. When I'm on a typewriter and it's something really focused and I'm not out to just write a chapter of a book, I'm out to do a dedicated post with a structure, it's really helpful.
Rob:Just slows you down. It's a ritual to get the typewriter out.
Helen:I completely agree. And the sound, this is what we were saying, wasn't it? These are the senses that we're using, the touch and the sounds and the, I mean, the sound of that typewriter, there was nothing like that as instantly recognizable, even though, I mean, you know, nobody's really had typewriter in anger for like forty years.
Rob:But you know, there's all that rage of everybody getting mechanical keyboards.
Helen:Yes.
Rob:My son's got one and it's really irritating. And it does not have the same sort of niceness to the ears that a typewriter does. I don't know what it is, but maybe I'm just getting old.
Helen:But maybe that's the point of this is that, you know, the ritual part of the ritual is that introducing sensory, much more sensory interaction as part of the ritual. Whereas a routine is something that you just wanna get done. And actually you don't probably want to be very conscious that you're doing it, it just needs to be done. And that's with your digital stuff. You wanna tick stuff off a list.
Helen:Whereas when you're writing to create. So when I'm writing the novel, I'm writing, I'm typing it. But when I'm creating new pieces, I always start on paper. And you know, I can't write very fast and my handwriting when I write really, really fast is not pretty at all. It's almost illegible to me either.
Helen:But as you say, that's slowing down and you're trying to keep your brain from running a 100 miles an hour and you can nearly type fast enough to keep up, but what
Rob:you can't
Helen:do is write fast enough to keep up. So you've deliberately chosen pen and paper and that's because you don't want to go fast or in your case, you've chosen a goddamn typewriter.
Rob:Yeah. I mean, it's frustrating to use. I mean, it's slow, tedious, you know, it's not a great typewriter. So when I push one letter, often get six at the same time, but you know, it's that friction reward, there's some reward on the other side of that friction, and it's a ritual. So I guess listeners, if you, you know, we've rambled chat about this, I'm not too sure there was an exact thread through this.
Rob:But maybe there's an opportunity to think about that time when you do choose a notebook when you do at a certain time of day, a process that is actually a ritual to get you into a different state of mind. And let us know, you know, let us know what you think about the difference between routines, habits, rituals. Let us know in the comments. Let us know on Instagram, how do you use rituals? And how do you use stationery to get you through that?
Helen:Just before we go, I mean, I'm still stuck on this. So I'm really sorry to all our listeners who thought that we were signing off then cause we nearly are. But I like the idea of this ritual, it's the same thing as you do for people who journal, I guess. So that end of the day, you sit down and you gather your thoughts. Or people who do morning pages, you sit down at the beginning and that's your ritual.
Helen:And I have never got that previously, but thinking of it as a form of ritual kind of makes a lot of sense to me.
Rob:Yeah. And you know that I guess what you're talking about there is that anchoring it in time. And I've already talked about space. So, you know, by the writing bureau, I'm here to do this at work. Yeah.
Rob:And even at work, know, we have a dedicated hour each week in this space. It could be virtual, you know, on this Zoom call in this hour. We're here to do creative stuff. No talk of work, just thinking about solutions and ideas. And I think that anchoring it around objects like stationary, space and time, is actually what a ritual probably could be defined as.
Rob:And I assume that the outcome of that must be that it sort of helps you get into a different state of mind, which is what journaling's for, for me anyway, for sure.
Helen:I think it's probably a deliberate effort to be productive in a certain way. Because I think that you can be effective and efficient in a to do list, but that's not the same thing. And your ritual is there, all the rituals that we've talked about really are there so that you can focus towards a particular type of productivity or particular type of outcome,
Rob:Yeah, meaningful I think so. And you know, thinking about rituals, thinking about the squirrel book, I obviously need a ritual of finding a book that represents squirrels. I know you mentioned, who was it that was I the
Helen:of their pattern waves this year is squirrels. You know, I did think of you when I saw it, Bob, I knew you were writing that book.
Rob:It's funny. I've I've been talking about writing the squirrel book for about ten years now. I I've almost written the book in my head. Know, I don't know whether you do this, but you're working through an idea. You know, you're trying to get sleep at night and you suddenly think of a great line for the squirrel book or there's a story arc that you think would work really well or there's a character that you need to flesh out.
Rob:And I don't often write it down. So I'm I've been writing this book in my head for a very, very long time, and I've been talking about it. So here people randomly send me stuff about squirrels. Know, I saw this on, you know, an advert or I found this picture of a squirrel thought it'd be interesting for you. And then actually yesterday, the cat nearly got a squirrel.
Rob:So it was very, very close. And I think the squirrel would have won to be fair in a straight fight.
Helen:Well,
Rob:I used to squirrels are everywhere. I need to find a book, but I'm not paying the shipping charges for.
Helen:No, from Robin Ichi. I mean, to be fair, my boss who we're going to get on as a guest on this podcast, by the way, who is a big stationary freak. She went to Japan and I think basically her suitcase was empty so she could come back much stationary as she could fit in. But yeah, she and I clubbed together because the stationery order from Hobonichi is not cheap, but it's much cheaper in Japan than it is in The UK, if you can buy enough to make it worth the payment for the postage, which is £37, £37 postage, you know.
Rob:This amazes me for a brand. I'm not a Hobonichi user, buyer, purchaser, addict, whatever you want to say. Why are they not distributing this stuff via, you know, European So
Helen:you can get it from The UK, but they've added on effectively, know, if I bought my Hobonichi Teko, which is the diary bit for next year. That's the only thing I really needed, but because I'm paying this £37 charge, I think it's about £45, something like that, I can't even remember the price now, for the book, you're doubling it almost to add the postage. So if you're gonna do that, you might as well buy another cover and then you might as well buy a couple of notepads And then you're getting to the point where it's worth paying with £37. And then you add your friend's order on as well, and then you're splitting it. You buy from a UK distributor, that will cost you 50 or £60 because they've added on £15 a proportion of the postage, which is absolutely fine.
Helen:Absolutely need to be able to recover their costs and make a profit. I don't know how much profit they make, but it looks like they would be making profit even if. And it's great if you just wanted to be really frugal and just buy the book that I should have just done, but I didn't want to do that.
Rob:Well, think the Hobonichi is off the list then given the prices you've just talked about.
Helen:You missed your week though September 1, but we'll have another whole conversation about Hobonichi another day Rob.
Rob:Absolutely. You know where I need to go? I need to get a HomeSense.
Helen:You do. I need a lady walking around there who's really great at the recommendations.
Rob:If you missed that, that was in the last episode that we did where a random lady after Helen had been there for what six hours? You've been looking through the the stationary stand in HomeSense, you'd bent and folded and twisted every book possible on the shelf. And this lady appeared with the book that you needed, which was actually spawn.
Helen:She got it for me. She shopped for me. I had my own personal stationery shopper. And I have to say long may it last.
Rob:I think what I need to do is probably just dig out one of the 120 odd notebooks I do have and draw picture of squirrel on the front.
Helen:Well, that's what stickers are for Rob.
Rob:Stickers. You and your stickers. I don't know.
Helen:I have stickers over everything. So I've got a notepad that's very boring dull green, but I have stickers of coffee shops on it because I'm about to start a new novel. Yeah, I got another one yet, but I need two because my brain won't settle. So I need to be able to switch between the two so that I can procrastinate with one by doing the other.
Rob:So what I actually need then is just a roll of stickers of squirrels.
Helen:That's exactly what you need. I might be able to help you with that. Let me have a look.
Rob:Right. Right. I think we've got a plan. I think we've a plan. So anyway, that was a bit of a ramble chat.
Rob:The thread there was quite clear. I think routines, rituals, using analog space and time, I think is a wonderful idea to think about. And you did a lot of work on routines and habits. All the time I've ever worked with the unknown, you've been an expert, I suppose, on those particular aspects. Do you think just as a leaving comment that actually setting up a ritual could be more powerful than trying to set up just a habit?
Helen:I do. But one thing I would say about this is the difference I think here is that you genuinely don't, it's not that you don't mind giving time to the ritual, it's that you actively want to give time to the ritual. So I think if you can find a way of getting yourself so that you genuinely want to give time to this thing, then I think setting up a ritual is really gonna work. I think if you are trying to force yourself to do something you don't want to do, I think you're whistling. Yeah.
Helen:I just don't think it's gonna happen.
Rob:I was just thinking about, you know, getting back into the gym and working out whether or not there's actually a ritual I could create that would aid me in switching the mindset into that or whether it's just a case you just get up, Rob, and go to the gym and just do what you've got to do.
Helen:Speaking as one who's not been to the gym for three weeks because my personal trainer isn't there. And consequently, nobody knows if I don't go. How loosely my life is held together. And I know it, which is why I have a personal trainer because I think that I wouldn't work out. Not because I don't enjoy it or not because I don't mind going.
Helen:It's just that I don't. And that's that thing about rituals. You have to have, you need a trigger point, a trip in your day that says now, now is the time. So when you get to sort of 11:00 in the morning, you think I'm a little bit hungry or I need a cup of tea, you stand up and then you go and you put the kettle on and you do whatever, I mean, don't know what everyone else does because apparently the British are very strange with their drinks. But anyway, I've been watching too much Instagram lately.
Helen:If you and you do that, what I now do is put the kettle on and then I will walk outside and wander around in the garden just for five minutes while the kettle boils. Come in and I'll put the tea into the, water into the pot, whether that's tea or coffee, and then I'll go and have another five minutes. And it's because I don't step outside. I work from home if I don't But try and do because I can habit stack, that's kind of nice. Now that's part of my coffee and tea making ritual.
Rob:Yeah.
Helen:So even if it's raining, I can stand at the door and kind of look out whimsically. But yeah,
Rob:I was just thinking I've got a keynote coming up in a couple of weeks and it's been a long time, actually, since I did a keynote. And I'm not particularly nervous about it because I've done the prep and I'm fairly confident about this. But I have a ritual and that ritual is the same outfit. I always wear my sort of blazer. I always wear a blazer.
Rob:You never see me in a blazer unless I'm about to go into a keynote. And I have a particular five minute ritual beforehand, which I'm not going to go into. But you know, it's a process that I go through. And I think that's a ritual, isn't it? It's about there's a space of time.
Rob:There's something physical putting the jacket on. I'm ready. This is it. The moment's arrived.
Helen:You're choosing your notebook. You're choosing your pen. You're getting yourself all set up for what it is you're about to do.
Rob:That's it. Hit the stage. Do that. Finish. Come grab a beer.
Rob:Okay, Helen. Well, I think that's been a lovely little chat, actually. And once again, thank you to Richard and to Phil for their poem and their zine and all the cool That's the color
Helen:they spent doing it. It's just wonderful.
Rob:Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. So if you wanna see that and you wanna find out a little bit more about, you know, maybe some of the stuff that we've talked about on this show, then don't hesitate to also subscribe to the newsletter, which accompanies every podcast, and you'll find that stationaryfreaks.com. We're also on Instagram, not particularly active, but we are on there and we do occasionally post something, and that's at stationaryfreaksuk.
Rob:So, Helen, anything else before we close out?
Helen:No, no, I think I have witted on aimlessly for a while now. I'll stop now.
Rob:That's it. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for listening and we look forward to speaking to you in the next episode. Yes. Bye bye.
Helen:Thank you. Bye.
